NETO Discussion Thread

[Ceausescu]

As far as Wadiyah's membership, I don't think we ever specifically worked out the post-war process in Wadiyah, just that it was supposed to join NETO. If you want, and if Carp agrees, we can sort of retroactively institute a process whereby Wadiyah joins NETO over time as it stabilizes and gets back on its feet before becoming a full member. In the meantime it could also have an observer status.

And I am serious about the iron fist. I would suggest ensuring that all officers in the military are loyal to the new regime and purging any of suspect loyalty. I can send some Zargistani Republican Guard to help with this. They are experts at this sort of thing.

Wadiyah joining gradually is probably the best option, but it depends on the outcome of the upcoming election. If Hamad Asmar wins, he'll flat-out refuse NETO membership and demand immediate withdrawal of NETO troops from the country. And at the moment, it looks as if this'll be the scenario, as Hamad Asmar has a much larger voter base and would obtain 63% of the votes. This is also the worst possible scenario, since if the Conservative Akhadic Party takes power and carries out its agenda of turning Wadiyah into a theocracy and imposing strict religious law, the west won't stand up to it. Western Wadiyah would rise up in arms and Silistria would outright declare independence.

However, the flip side of the coin is also a very plausible scenario, as the east won't like it if the secularists win and carry out their plan of federalization, as they view them as sinners and blasphemers and simply can't tolerate the idea of secularism. For the east, its either theocracy, or war.

At the moment, what keeps Wadiyah from exploding, is the upcoming elections, but they are also building up tensions. If something isn't done, once the elections are over, we're likely looking at a renewal of hostilities. Violence would also break out if the elections keep getting postponed.

The main problem in Wadiyah is the lack of any form of national cohesion, whatsoever. There are huge ideological, cultural and religious differences between east and west and if one were to visit both regions, it would feel like visiting two separate countries. Even the language is somewhat of a barrier, with east speaking something very similar to what they have in Khanid and the west speaking a Carpathianised version of it, resulting in two different dialects of the same thing, which are distinctive enough to result in situations where people from the two regions would have some difficulties understanding eachother.

Wadiyah's big problem is the fact that its an artificial state, formed by clumping several colonial territories together. What's held it together, so far, was the fact that a class of nobles was in charge of all of it and their only interest was to make a profit. However, that won't work anymore.

Something major would have to be done, and quickly, to prevent Wadiyah from exploding. Either brutal repression by whoever takes power (and if that is the Akhadists, Silistria won't stand for it and they have the firepower to do something about it), or even a two-state solution, breaking up eastern and western Wadiyah into two separate states, which also carries its own risks, as it may trigger a domino effect, with different regions just declaring independence and ending up with, essentially, a clusterfuck of small states.

So, to sum things up, there just isn't an ideal solution for Wadiyah.

[Jamzor the Jaxxor]

You'd think the mass atrocities committed by the Akhadist State would have soured the east's opinion on super strict religious law.

[Severyane]

What do you need my opinion on?

EDIT: While Mithraina won't be able to contribute a large amount of troops, simply due to how small our military is, they are in favor of moving to help stabilize Wadiyah.

We'd be more than willing to contribute a set amount of soldiers, however we'll need to negotiate our exact commitment with the rest of you.

[Ceausescu]

You'd think the mass atrocities committed by the Akhadist State would have soured the east's opinion on super strict religious law.

Except that the east fully supported the Akhadist State, which is why the group was so entrenched there.

[Seperallis]

Kyrzbekistan is not opposed to A'Sir membership on principle, but it considered that their "olive branch" was poisoned so far. The agreement, and the fact that A'sir appeared in the treaty thread, is that Kyrzbekistan was not going to oppose A'Sir if differences were sorted out, and that meanwhile A'Sir was going to be offered some kind of observer status into NETO. But that didn't happen yet. Kyrzbekistan has a veto right and there's not a reason why we wouldn't use it until now. It's not really an issue of "keep ignoring each other within NETO", as for Kyrzbekistan the A'Sir issue is certainly a national security one.    

Alright, so if Oertha also agrees that this is how it went down, then A'sir can be counted as an observer in NETO. As far as Wadiyah's membership, I don't think we ever specifically worked out the post-war process in Wadiyah, just that it was supposed to join NETO. If you want, and if Carp agrees, we can sort of retroactively institute a process whereby Wadiyah joins NETO over time as it stabilizes and gets back on its feet before becoming a full member. In the meantime it could also have an observer status.

That's fine. I originally played it off as how Med described it above, but how Hadash describes it makes more sense, and we've recently been operating under that assumption. Or at least I have. A'sir would still very much like to enter NETO completely, but I doubt that'll happen without outside pressure, and I'm sure Gharabaghi can't keep justifying the effort to his conservative base forever.

In either case, regardless of the fact A'sir opposes, it would still support a mission in whatever capacity is asked of it.

[Jamzor the Jaxxor]

Alright, so we can assume now that decision to redeploy to Wadiyah has been approved by the Council.

Perhaps our next order of business can be to discuss what steps need to be taken to allow A'sir to join fully?

[Eminence]

Kyrzbekistan is not opposed to A'Sir membership on principle, but it considered that their "olive branch" was poisoned so far. The agreement, and the fact that A'sir appeared in the treaty thread, is that Kyrzbekistan was not going to oppose A'Sir if differences were sorted out, and that meanwhile A'Sir was going to be offered some kind of observer status into NETO. But that didn't happen yet. Kyrzbekistan has a veto right and there's not a reason why we wouldn't use it until now. It's not really an issue of "keep ignoring each other within NETO", as for Kyrzbekistan the A'Sir issue is certainly a national security one.    

Alright, so if Oertha also agrees that this is how it went down, then A'sir can be counted as an observer in NETO. As far as Wadiyah's membership, I don't think we ever specifically worked out the post-war process in Wadiyah, just that it was supposed to join NETO. If you want, and if Carp agrees, we can sort of retroactively institute a process whereby Wadiyah joins NETO over time as it stabilizes and gets back on its feet before becoming a full member. In the meantime it could also have an observer status.

That's fine. I originally played it off as how Med described it above, but how Hadash describes it makes more sense, and we've recently been operating under that assumption. Or at least I have. A'sir would still very much like to enter NETO completely, but I doubt that'll happen without outside pressure, and I'm sure Gharabaghi can't keep justifying the effort to his conservative base forever.  

In either case, regardless of the fact A'sir opposes, it would still support a mission in whatever capacity is asked of it.

Yeah mate you are fully in NETO as it is; the current members are Kyrzbekistan, Mithraina, A'sir, Khanid, Arrica, Ga'bath, Zargistan, Wadiyah.

[Jamzor the Jaxxor]

Kyrzbekistan is not opposed to A'Sir membership on principle, but it considered that their "olive branch" was poisoned so far. The agreement, and the fact that A'sir appeared in the treaty thread, is that Kyrzbekistan was not going to oppose A'Sir if differences were sorted out, and that meanwhile A'Sir was going to be offered some kind of observer status into NETO. But that didn't happen yet. Kyrzbekistan has a veto right and there's not a reason why we wouldn't use it until now. It's not really an issue of "keep ignoring each other within NETO", as for Kyrzbekistan the A'Sir issue is certainly a national security one.    

Alright, so if Oertha also agrees that this is how it went down, then A'sir can be counted as an observer in NETO. As far as Wadiyah's membership, I don't think we ever specifically worked out the post-war process in Wadiyah, just that it was supposed to join NETO. If you want, and if Carp agrees, we can sort of retroactively institute a process whereby Wadiyah joins NETO over time as it stabilizes and gets back on its feet before becoming a full member. In the meantime it could also have an observer status.

That's fine. I originally played it off as how Med described it above, but how Hadash describes it makes more sense, and we've recently been operating under that assumption. Or at least I have. A'sir would still very much like to enter NETO completely, but I doubt that'll happen without outside pressure, and I'm sure Gharabaghi can't keep justifying the effort to his conservative base forever.  

In either case, regardless of the fact A'sir opposes, it would still support a mission in whatever capacity is asked of it.

Yeah mate you are fully in NETO as it is; the current members are Kyrzbekistan, Mithraina, A'sir, Khanid, Arrica, Ga'bath, Zargistan, Wadiyah.

We are now operating under the assumption that A'sir has not yet fully joined, as both Oertha and Hadash have agreed with this state of affairs.

[Hadash]

Surely we need to discuss the Wadiyah topic again, sadly. Kyrzbekistan has already called another urgent NETO meeting at least.  

Under the assumption that Wadiyah government requested NETO military assistance legally *before* the elections, what the military leadership has done after the vote, if not actually a coup d'etat, it must be clearly unconstitutional. Even if the interim president has loses the elections, and the country is under a typical period of transition of power, the interim government is still in charge, and the military is not supposed to have sovereign power over the country sovereignty.

Some of the decisions of the interim government and their Silastrian allies, on the other hand, when not blatantly stupid, have not been clearly lawful, we could say. And their claim to legitimacy have been weakened at least. It is also clear that even if they were able to keep control of the capital and some provinces in the next days/weeks/months, they are not able to keep control of the country anymore. It is likely they would lose, or the country going to another civil war for months and likely years.

What could NETO do? Well, this is likely Kyrzbekistan' government view on the issue.

a) Withdrawal and non-interference from Wadiyah. Accept the military and conservatives claim of "democratic victory" and sovereingty over the country, even if it is likely chaos will be followed and who knows if NETO will be forced to act in the future as that situation may translate into war and unstability outside Wadiyah borders again.

b) In our view, an alternative but more reasonable option that fully endorse any side would be declaring a Non-fly zone over Wadiyah by NETO, in order to assure the peace and stability in the country. Any navy or air force which involve in direct activity or warfare -either it is under Wadiyah military, Bassam's forces, Akhadist militias, or Silistrian para-military control- will be smashed down. This would apply as well as any artillery attack that involve the death of civilians, we could claim, in order to force all sides to negotiate a solution.

For a while, this may be enough to contain the situation to another full-fledged civil war which danger regional stability.

[Severyane]

Just wanted to make it clear what Mithraina can contribute, so that there aren't any misconceptions about what we can bring to help in Wadiyah.

We'll be able to contribute two Legions (Divisions), an infantry Division and an Air Cavalry Division. Total, that's about ~10,300 front line combat troops and some intermingled support staff.

Just because we can doesn't mean we have to. I'd personally much rather only bring one of them in.

Sorry for being so stuck on the little details