NETO Discussion Thread

[Seperallis]

A'sir is willing. Kyrzbekistan smells of poop, though, and they won't even bother to sit at the table.

[Nentsia]

http://board.eternityrpc.com/showthread....705#pid705

[Ceausescu]

Hi folks. Well, as you've prolly read in the news post, the interim president has formally requested that NETO extends their occupation of Wadiyah, past the previously determined term.

In regard to the Silistrian paramilitaries' involvement, the situation is a bit more complicated. Carpathia is covertly backing them, yes, but the Silistrians themselves are pretty directly backing the pro-NETO interim president, since, if the opposition candidate wins, he promises to end the NETO occupation and revoke Silistria's autonomy and impose Akhadic religious law nation-wide, something that the Silistrians are not very fond of.

In turn, the interim president is kinda' using the Silistrians themselves as something of an insurance policy against the Wadiyan military, which is currently backing the religious conservatives and has traditionally had a lot of political power (and still does). So, in the end, Carpathia's covert support of the Silistrians kind of translates into indirect support for NETO itself, as NETO (and the pro-NETO interim president) is the guarantor of Silistria's autonomy, in accordance with the terms of the peace treaty that was signed after the civil war.

The complicated part is that the pro-NETO interim president (Bassam Al-Fayeed) is using the failed coup as an excuse to crack down on political rivals, media publications that are critical of his government, etc. And he's using the Silistrian paramilitaries as something of a political police (So far, he had them raid and shut down several pro-opposition newspapers, on various trumped-up charges, such as that their execs and employees presumably supported the Akhadist State during the civil war)

[Eminence]

This is how NETO is structured rn. There is A'sir, Kyrzbekistan, Wadiyah, Khannid, Arrica, Zargistan and Ga'bath. We sorted all this out and I thought it was quite clear, the ties from Kyrzbekistan and A'sir are more directed towards NETO than eachother, evidently, but we more or less co-operate under the principles of the treaty.

[Eminence]

Ga'bath votes yes for a incursion into Wadiyah for the second time, in order to keep up the current government.

[Jamzor the Jaxxor]

In order for this to be an official decision of the NETO Council, it must be made unanimously. Otherwise, if any member-states of NETO wished to do anything in Wadiyah, they would have to act outside of NETO's official structure (and without NETO financial backing).

So far, Wadiyah, Zargistan, Ga'bath, and Kyrzbekistan have voted in favor. A'sir opposes. Lines said that Khanid and Aricca can be assumed to go along with the majority of players. Mithraina is silent because Hahk hasn't been on yet, but we'll get his opinion whenever he comes online. I am acting under the assumption that A'sir is a full member because 1) they signed the treaty on the old forums, and 2) Med said that you two worked it out over Chatango and he was there to witness it. I will also note again that Wadiyah is a NETO member, which I'm not sure Oertha was aware of before.

Here's Zargistan's official proposal: The Council create a Wadiyah Commitee to oversee NETO forces and funds in Wadiyah. A minimum of 50,000 troops will be maintained in Wadiyah until such a time as it is determined that the country's stability is not under threat. NETO will provide advisers and trainers to assist the government in reorganizing and retraining the military and financial support to properly equip it. When NETO troops enter the country, Silistrian troops will return to Silistria in a Timely Manner™.

In seeing that Silistrian troops are being used to crack down on anti-NETO influences, Zargistan will not advocate for an immediate withdrawal to Silistria, but they will have to return at some point in the near future.

[Hadash]

Kyrzbekistan is not opposed to A'Sir membership on principle, but it considered that their "olive branch" was poisoned so far. The agreement, and the fact that A'sir appeared in the treaty thread, is that Kyrzbekistan was not going to oppose A'Sir if differences were sorted out, and that meanwhile A'Sir was going to be offered some kind of observer status into NETO. But that didn't happen yet. Kyrzbekistan has a veto right and there's not a reason why we wouldn't use it until now. It's not really an issue of "keep ignoring each other within NETO", as for Kyrzbekistan the A'Sir issue is certainly a national security one.    

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Kyrzbekistan would suggest that Wadiyah government moves toward a more inclusive government, in order to give more stability to the country. This may include interim president Bassam Al-Fayeed and his allies, a Silestrian representative, and other political forces (Kyrzbekistan's ruling party likely established friendly ties with some Wadiyah's secular center-left political party which was established after the civil war, after all), who knows if even moderate Akhadists, if Wadiyah is that a conservative country.

That Wadiyah becomes a NETO member makes sense, but it sounds a bit precipitate. The country barely left a military occupation -which may be reestablished- and I don't know if even a constitution and more permanent institutions were established so far, after all. West Germany only became a NATO member six years after the alliance was created, for example.

[Ceausescu]

Kyrzbekistan would suggest that Wadiyah government moves toward a more inclusive government, in order to give more stability to the country. This may include interim president Bassam Al-Fayeed and his allies, a Silestrian representative, and other political forces (Kyrzbekistan's ruling party likely established friendly ties with some Wadiyah's secular center-left political party which was established after the civil war, after all), who knows if even moderate Akhadists, if Wadiyah is that a conservative country.

That Wadiyah becomes a NETO member makes sense, but it sounds a bit precipitate. The country barely left a military occupation -which may be reestablished- and I don't know if even a constitution and more permanent institutions were established so far, after all. West Germany only became a NATO member six years after the alliance was created, for example.

Wadiyah is a bit more complicated than that. The divisions between conservatives and lefties fall on geographical lines. Wadiyah is more or less an artificial state, formed by merging the former colonial holdings of Carpathia, with the eastern territories (I don't know who ran that place at the time). Thus, like many states in the IRL middle east, the differences are not just sectarian, but tribal as well. There is no real sense of national unity, or even a cohesive national identity in Wadiyah. The stark economic differences don't help, either. The west is far better off than the more populous east, which, in contrast, is extremely impoverished and underdeveloped. The problem here is that the east has a larger population than the west. And the east was heavily in favor of the Akhadist State group and is heavily anti-NETO, because they view NETO as an "alliance of blasphemy", which destroyed the Akhadist State organization.

Given how much the eastern population outnumbers the western regions, and how the military is drawn mostly from the eastern region (its mostly impoverished people to whom the military is the only chance at a stable job and a steady income), its not unexpected that the military would be ultraconservative and heavily opposed to the current government and the NETO peace treaty, as they consider the secular government to be blasphemous and the accords which give Silistria its autonomy, are viewed as equally heretical, because those accords prevent religious law from being imposed on the autonomous region.

Politically speaking, Wadiyah has fallen along two lines, with two prominent parties emerging and the others being just satellite for these two. On one hand, we have the interim president Bassam Al-Fayeed's Coalition for Progress, which supports a liberal policy of secularization and religious freedom, on the other hand, we have the eastern-based cleric Hamad Asmar's Conservative Akhadic Party, which is ultraconservative and runs on an agenda of enforcing strict religious laws nation-wide (including Silistria) and dismantling the autonomy of certain areas, in order to achieve this.

In addition, there is also the problem of rampant corruption, which was to be expected in a post-civil war scenario. Both candidates are equally corrupt and have ties to some rather shady groups, with Hamad Asmar being rumored to recruit former Akhadist State fighters into eastern militias, under the umbrella of eastern autonomy and clemency for low-rank Akhadist State members, in exchange for "civil service", while Bassam Al-Fayeed pretty brazenly uses the Silistrian paramilitaries and their connections to Carpathia, in order to consolidate power for himself, while also openly inviting NETO to continue their occupation, in order to prevent a major uprising by eastern groups.

[Jamzor the Jaxxor]

Obviously Wadiyah needs an iron fist to keep the peace.

[Jamzor the Jaxxor]

Kyrzbekistan is not opposed to A'Sir membership on principle, but it considered that their "olive branch" was poisoned so far. The agreement, and the fact that A'sir appeared in the treaty thread, is that Kyrzbekistan was not going to oppose A'Sir if differences were sorted out, and that meanwhile A'Sir was going to be offered some kind of observer status into NETO. But that didn't happen yet. Kyrzbekistan has a veto right and there's not a reason why we wouldn't use it until now. It's not really an issue of "keep ignoring each other within NETO", as for Kyrzbekistan the A'Sir issue is certainly a national security one.    

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Kyrzbekistan would suggest that Wadiyah government moves toward a more inclusive government, in order to give more stability to the country. This may include interim president Bassam Al-Fayeed and his allies, a Silestrian representative, and other political forces (Kyrzbekistan's ruling party likely established friendly ties with some Wadiyah's secular center-left political party which was established after the civil war, after all), who knows if even moderate Akhadists, if Wadiyah is that a conservative country.

That Wadiyah becomes a NETO member makes sense, but it sounds a bit precipitate. The country barely left a military occupation -which may be reestablished- and I don't know if even a constitution and more permanent institutions were established so far, after all. West Germany only became a NATO member six years after the alliance was created, for example.

Alright, so if Oertha also agrees that this is how it went down, then A'sir can be counted as an observer in NETO. As far as Wadiyah's membership, I don't think we ever specifically worked out the post-war process in Wadiyah, just that it was supposed to join NETO. If you want, and if Carp agrees, we can sort of retroactively institute a process whereby Wadiyah joins NETO over time as it stabilizes and gets back on its feet before becoming a full member. In the meantime it could also have an observer status.

And I am serious about the iron fist. I would suggest ensuring that all officers in the military are loyal to the new regime and purging any of suspect loyalty. I can send some Zargistani Republican Guard to help with this. They are experts at this sort of thing.