Eternity RPC Board
09-01-2016, 02:56 AM
A reasonably heated discussion on the subject occurred not too long ago. It didn't end on too much of a positive note, hence I've embarked on this thread. The point is to convey the Directorate's policy regarding weapons, equipment, products and such taken from RL and dropped into RL.
I'ma break it down, as different items are due different levels of protection. Some are actually relevant ICly, while others are not so much.
Weapons and Military Equipment
In an ideal environment, in-game nations would be equipped with completely fictional, custom, designed-by-us. This is not policy because making it policy would be insane. People are lazy. People are fan-boys. People are practical. For whatever reason, some are inclined to just take a real-life weapon, drop it in-game, rebrand it, and call it a day.
There is nothing inherently wrong with this. The Directorate does not object to this. John will not be murdered or gutted or assassinated or otherwise secret-policed to death for doing it.
However, it is a different story to do that and claim the real-life weapon.
But wwhhhyyy?
Because John made nothing. At best, he retyped some things and added formatting; at worst, he copy+pasted things into a specific order. Neither is really enough to convince the Directorate to say "Oh, this is totally something that belongs to John and John only. No one else can have it without going through him."
Buuuuuttt whhhyyy?
Because John took something that might as well be generic. He took something that just many people may and do want. John really has no right to use it and deny it to others. It would be unfair to others to give a generic design sole to John.
Oh. But what if John's country is a really big deal?
That is not an excuse for John to claim a real-life weapon as completely his, sorry. It doesn't change the underlying fact that the real-life weapon isn't his and another really-big-deal country might want it.
But, honestly, in-game, it would be legitimate for one country to design a specific thing that then gets exported out to everyone. It's the nature of things. Capitalism. Survival of the fittest. And such.
To some extents, yes. This is why the the Directorate would have no qualms with John protecting his in-game design.
Wot.
There is a difference between in-game and real-life designs. Even if the image and the specs are the same. The in-game model is fictional and specific to one nation. The real-life design belongs to the real world. That the fictional model looks like the real-life model is an unfortunate side-effect of Siora being a fictional world and persons being unable to dedicate the time and resources to designs an entirely new item. Which is what would happen in a legitimate world. Realistically, it is incredibly unlikely that a Sioran would design the exact same specific model an Earthling did. It's just highly improbable.
Some concepts--like communism--could very well evolve, but they're not the subject here. But because of that previous sentence the Directorate has no problems with communism, monarchism, and democracy existing in Siora as they do in real life. Because they're so basic they could and would have evolved. A specific model of the execution of various technologies is not such so basic. "Ideology are fundamental, models are distinct." If that makes sense.
But I digress. John could protect his in-game design. That is special. That is "his". If another country were to try to step on his design, he would be in the right to go curbstomp them. But the real-life model is not his design. Unless John happened to be the real designer of that model, he had nothing to do with its development and has consequently no rights to it.
But John did design his own. Lets call it the Gamazoobajinga. And the real-life design the Unicornia. And the Gamazoobajinga is effectively the Unicornia rebranded. Assuming said, :
This is shaky territory. While this may be true, the Directorate does not want to start outright dictating what people can or cannot do with their countries because that's a bit both authoritarian and totalitarian. While the Directorate can and will maintain influence over what happens in the broad picture, globally, it is less inclined to intervene in transpiration within one country. Unless it's extremely unrealistic.
In such a case--if Billylania were obviously and overwhelmingly too poor to develop a weapon, the Directorate may pressure Billy to import instead, possibly from Johnlania. Even if he Billylania is too poor to do that effectively. But, hey, no one told them to be poor. Silly poor people.
So, John could still build an arms empire?
Yes. But it must be done by consent. If John and Spencer agree that Spencerlania would totally import Johnlanian weapons, hooray for them. If John and and Rebecca agree that Rebeccalania and Johnlania worked together to develop the Gamazoobajinga X, whoopie for them.
Oh...kay. I guess that makes sense.
Great. Here's a few more scenarios:
John's Johnlania invented the fictional Gamazoobajinga, which is just the real-life Unicornia rebranded:
Honest? I can't think of anything right now. The real-life Unicornia simply does not belong to John. It and its images are, for our purposes, effectively public properly.
I guess I can concede that's fair enough.
Cool. Now here's what would happen if the Gamazoobajinga were John's own design. He drew and designed both the images and the specifications and is consequently real proud of it. Let's call it the Babooniza though, to separately from our previous Gamazoobajinga cases:
Indeed. Now, John has the Super-omega-weapon-system-16. He wrote the specifics himself but used an imagine designed by another artist with that artist's consent.
Summaries?
If your Gamazoobajinga is just the Unicornia rebranded: the Directorate will not help you if the Unicornia is claimed as the source, but it will enforce your ownership of the Gamazoobajinga. However, you should not confuse the Gamazoobajinga with the Unicornia. The Unicornia is real-life, the Gamazoobajinga is fiction. If you want to protect the design as a whole, down to the image: design the Babooniza.
If you have the Babooniza, which is completely your own design, down to the images: the Directorate will protect that design in full. Because you made it. You spent time on it. You spent hours on figuring the specifications and even longer on drawing the images. Its yours and the Directorate will respect and protect that.
If you have the Super-omega-weapon-system-16, which is your own specifications with someone else's artwork: the Directorate will protect your specific design. It will encourage others to use different artwork. I am open to opinions on whether or not this should be enforced, however.
If you have the Copy+pasted, which is someone else's specifications with someone else's artwork, the Directorate will again attempt to protect that specific design. It will similarly encourage others to use different artwork. However, I'd feel it'd be a bit odd and perhaps hypocritical if we prohibit the use of artists we know but not artists we don't.
Are there any questions? We can debate this, and a well-put argument for a specific position may be able to convince me to reconsider the Directorate's. However, simply put: I don't believe anyone has or is due or should have exclusive rights to images of a real-life weapon. If the specs are the same to all three, you both copied+pasted and are honestly not due anything. If the specs are different, then it is not technically the same weapon; it just happens to look the same, due to the real-life lack of resources. In-game, those weapons could certainly look different.
Additionally, I wish to reiterate that a nation can and perhaps legitimately could and would develop an "arms empire" regardless of the source of its weapons. However, the defense of this empire is something the Directorate will look at from in-game point of view and decide from the in-game "facts".
Ideally, this will be a silent, underlying arrangement that is not vehemently enforced unless necessary. However, depending on how this thread goes, I may draft a more official policy and perhaps even add it to the rules. I don't really want to do that, though, in large part because it's work. And we all know how I feel about that stuff.
Whether I touch on the other items or not also depends on the flow of the conversation.
I'ma break it down, as different items are due different levels of protection. Some are actually relevant ICly, while others are not so much.
Weapons and Military Equipment
In an ideal environment, in-game nations would be equipped with completely fictional, custom, designed-by-us. This is not policy because making it policy would be insane. People are lazy. People are fan-boys. People are practical. For whatever reason, some are inclined to just take a real-life weapon, drop it in-game, rebrand it, and call it a day.
There is nothing inherently wrong with this. The Directorate does not object to this. John will not be murdered or gutted or assassinated or otherwise secret-policed to death for doing it.
However, it is a different story to do that and claim the real-life weapon.
But wwhhhyyy?
Because John made nothing. At best, he retyped some things and added formatting; at worst, he copy+pasted things into a specific order. Neither is really enough to convince the Directorate to say "Oh, this is totally something that belongs to John and John only. No one else can have it without going through him."
Buuuuuttt whhhyyy?
Because John took something that might as well be generic. He took something that just many people may and do want. John really has no right to use it and deny it to others. It would be unfair to others to give a generic design sole to John.
Oh. But what if John's country is a really big deal?
That is not an excuse for John to claim a real-life weapon as completely his, sorry. It doesn't change the underlying fact that the real-life weapon isn't his and another really-big-deal country might want it.
But, honestly, in-game, it would be legitimate for one country to design a specific thing that then gets exported out to everyone. It's the nature of things. Capitalism. Survival of the fittest. And such.
To some extents, yes. This is why the the Directorate would have no qualms with John protecting his in-game design.
Wot.
There is a difference between in-game and real-life designs. Even if the image and the specs are the same. The in-game model is fictional and specific to one nation. The real-life design belongs to the real world. That the fictional model looks like the real-life model is an unfortunate side-effect of Siora being a fictional world and persons being unable to dedicate the time and resources to designs an entirely new item. Which is what would happen in a legitimate world. Realistically, it is incredibly unlikely that a Sioran would design the exact same specific model an Earthling did. It's just highly improbable.
Some concepts--like communism--could very well evolve, but they're not the subject here. But because of that previous sentence the Directorate has no problems with communism, monarchism, and democracy existing in Siora as they do in real life. Because they're so basic they could and would have evolved. A specific model of the execution of various technologies is not such so basic. "Ideology are fundamental, models are distinct." If that makes sense.
But I digress. John could protect his in-game design. That is special. That is "his". If another country were to try to step on his design, he would be in the right to go curbstomp them. But the real-life model is not his design. Unless John happened to be the real designer of that model, he had nothing to do with its development and has consequently no rights to it.
But John did design his own. Lets call it the Gamazoobajinga. And the real-life design the Unicornia. And the Gamazoobajinga is effectively the Unicornia rebranded. Assuming said, :
- Were Billylania (owned by Billy) to design a weapon based on the Gamazoobajinga, Johnlania could sue its ass for patent infringement. Or whatever it is. I don't actually know. This would be appropriate because the other country would be stealing the Gamazoobajinga, both of which are in-game actions. John has rights here because he has rights over the Gamazoobajinga.
- Were Billy to spawn within Billylania the Unicornia, to whatever extent--even if it's limited to simply using the same image--Johnlania could do nothing. It might look like the Gamazoobajinga, but that's only because both John and the second player do not have the time or resources to dedicate to developing their own graphics or specifications. John has no rights here because he holds no rights over the Unicornia.
This is shaky territory. While this may be true, the Directorate does not want to start outright dictating what people can or cannot do with their countries because that's a bit both authoritarian and totalitarian. While the Directorate can and will maintain influence over what happens in the broad picture, globally, it is less inclined to intervene in transpiration within one country. Unless it's extremely unrealistic.
In such a case--if Billylania were obviously and overwhelmingly too poor to develop a weapon, the Directorate may pressure Billy to import instead, possibly from Johnlania. Even if he Billylania is too poor to do that effectively. But, hey, no one told them to be poor. Silly poor people.
So, John could still build an arms empire?
Yes. But it must be done by consent. If John and Spencer agree that Spencerlania would totally import Johnlanian weapons, hooray for them. If John and and Rebecca agree that Rebeccalania and Johnlania worked together to develop the Gamazoobajinga X, whoopie for them.
Oh...kay. I guess that makes sense.
Great. Here's a few more scenarios:
John's Johnlania invented the fictional Gamazoobajinga, which is just the real-life Unicornia rebranded:
- Spencerlania imports the Gamazoobajinga: great, no problemo; life goes on.
- Rebeccalania and Johnlania co-develop the Gamazoobajinga X: great, no problemo; life goes on.
- Billy's Billylania legitimately develops a weapon based on the Unicornia: John can do nothing because he has no rights over the Unicornia.
- Will is new. Will's Willlania develops a weapon Will says is "based on the Gamazoobajinga", and it is in fact the Unicornia. John talks to him, because they had not reached a previous agreement. Will is surprised to learn that the Gamazoobajinga is property of Johnlania.
- Will proceeds to remove all references to the Gamazoobajinga: great, no problmeo; disaster averted. He can do this because it was an honest mistake given the in-game culture.
- Will is a dick and keep the references to the Gamazoobajinga but refuses to tie it to Johnlania: Will gets bitch-slapped by the Directorate which then proceeds to set him straight. He will be forced to tie it to Johnlania or remove the references to the Gamazoobajinga. But Will can still base it on the Unicornia because John still has no rights over the Unicornia.
- Will proceeds to remove all references to the Gamazoobajinga: great, no problmeo; disaster averted. He can do this because it was an honest mistake given the in-game culture.
Honest? I can't think of anything right now. The real-life Unicornia simply does not belong to John. It and its images are, for our purposes, effectively public properly.
I guess I can concede that's fair enough.
Cool. Now here's what would happen if the Gamazoobajinga were John's own design. He drew and designed both the images and the specifications and is consequently real proud of it. Let's call it the Babooniza though, to separately from our previous Gamazoobajinga cases:
- First, John gets a big thumbs up and maybe even a medal from the Directorate. Really, good work John. I'm proud of you.
- Spencerlania imports the Babooniza: pretty spiffy, both of you.
- Rebeccalania and Johnlania work together to develop the Babooniza V: you go, guys.
- Will steals the Babooniza by having Willlania develop something based on the Babooniza without John's consent and then refuses to work with John: Will is bitch-slapped so hard. Just, so hard. Fuck you, Will. The Directorate punishes Will for stealing John's work and spitting on his labor.
- Billy tries to claim Billylania legitimately developed the Babooniza independently: No. Bad Billy. Don't be a Will. While Billy can design a weapon that meets the same purpose he cannot give it the same image and specifications because those are John's work. Using them without his consent would be a dick move.
Indeed. Now, John has the Super-omega-weapon-system-16. He wrote the specifics himself but used an imagine designed by another artist with that artist's consent.
- Firstly, let me just say that I really like how you've been improving John. I mean, going above and beyond to get the author's explicit permission to use the image. Way to go. I am legitly honestly proud of you. Love you, man. No homo.
- Spencerlania and Rebeccalania again do their thing. You guys are still okay.
- Will's still a dick and again tries to steal John's work. He tries to claim his country developed the Super-omega-weapon-system-14, which is effectively the Super-omega-weapon-system-16 but with slightly different specifications. It even uses the same image: you are just one incredibly massive dick, Will. Bye-bye. Administration bans Will for being a troll. Life goes on.
- Billy claim his country developed the Super-omega-weapon-system-24, which is the Super-omega-weapon-system-16 but better. Its stats are indeed improved, and it uses a different image: **sigh** Really Billy? You're kind of a dick too. He's asked to change the name, because Super-omega-weapon-system-16 is John's name. If it's reasonable his country could've made a better design, than he is allowed to keep it. If it's not reasonable, then he's asked to lower them. However, this only applies if the item is generic--say, a missile. If even the purpose itself is special...then, honestly, the Directorate can't really do anything. Because that's legitimate. Designing different weapons to meet the same purpose is kind of a thing that happens. However, if it's really, really, really John's idea, then everyone secretly thinks Billy's a dweeb for copying the concept. I know everyone does that. Don't lie.
Summaries?
If your Gamazoobajinga is just the Unicornia rebranded: the Directorate will not help you if the Unicornia is claimed as the source, but it will enforce your ownership of the Gamazoobajinga. However, you should not confuse the Gamazoobajinga with the Unicornia. The Unicornia is real-life, the Gamazoobajinga is fiction. If you want to protect the design as a whole, down to the image: design the Babooniza.
If you have the Babooniza, which is completely your own design, down to the images: the Directorate will protect that design in full. Because you made it. You spent time on it. You spent hours on figuring the specifications and even longer on drawing the images. Its yours and the Directorate will respect and protect that.
If you have the Super-omega-weapon-system-16, which is your own specifications with someone else's artwork: the Directorate will protect your specific design. It will encourage others to use different artwork. I am open to opinions on whether or not this should be enforced, however.
If you have the Copy+pasted, which is someone else's specifications with someone else's artwork, the Directorate will again attempt to protect that specific design. It will similarly encourage others to use different artwork. However, I'd feel it'd be a bit odd and perhaps hypocritical if we prohibit the use of artists we know but not artists we don't.
Are there any questions? We can debate this, and a well-put argument for a specific position may be able to convince me to reconsider the Directorate's. However, simply put: I don't believe anyone has or is due or should have exclusive rights to images of a real-life weapon. If the specs are the same to all three, you both copied+pasted and are honestly not due anything. If the specs are different, then it is not technically the same weapon; it just happens to look the same, due to the real-life lack of resources. In-game, those weapons could certainly look different.
Additionally, I wish to reiterate that a nation can and perhaps legitimately could and would develop an "arms empire" regardless of the source of its weapons. However, the defense of this empire is something the Directorate will look at from in-game point of view and decide from the in-game "facts".
Ideally, this will be a silent, underlying arrangement that is not vehemently enforced unless necessary. However, depending on how this thread goes, I may draft a more official policy and perhaps even add it to the rules. I don't really want to do that, though, in large part because it's work. And we all know how I feel about that stuff.
Whether I touch on the other items or not also depends on the flow of the conversation.