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+---- Thread: Alt Earth OOC (/thread-711.html)
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Alt Earth OOC - Flo - 06-06-2018
WELCOME TO ALTERNATE EARTH!
This is something we've been cooking up the last week or so after some folks had interest. Below is the map as of 1780.
![[Image: 117.png]](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/380869572292509697/455858830945943563/117.png)
(note, I do not have it labeled yet. I hope to do that by Thursday evening).
Player States:
Blacaria: Iberia (portugal and castile, american colonies, and some footholds in africa and one sliver in india i believe)
Deschaine: Ireland (light green in ireland, some american colonies, and i believe a foothold in africa as well)
Floman: The Ottoman Sultunate (light green in balkans, anatolia, iraq, and bits of north africa, also has semi-autonomous "vassals" of Egypt, Syria & the Levant, and Tunis)
Hadash: England & France (the pinkish color in england and france, also some american colonies and bits of africa and some india)
Ikarius: American something or other (light blue on eastern US seaboard)
Lynis: The Holy Roman Emperor (that lanlania blue in germany -- bavaria, mecklenburg, pommerania, and bits of belgium, east france, west germany, etc. also has indirect domain over the rest of the holy roman empire, though the largest HRE states still mostly do their own thing -- for now > : ) Note: Holland/Netherlands is a member of the HRE)
Nentsia: Russia: big green blob across the far east of europe and north asia, as well as some alaska)
Sal: Dandy aborigines
Sep: Persia (light green in iran area)
There might be a couple edits, assuming there aren't any specific requests, but for the most part the map is finished.
RE: Alt Earth OOC - Ayzek - 06-07-2018
My country's the Kingdom of Germany. Its king is also the Protestant Holy Roman Emperor and, separately, the Duke of Pomerania and Count of Tyrol. As King of Germany, he directly rules the duchies of Baden, Bavaria, Royal Franconia, Lower Lorraine, and Upper Lorraine; and is suzerain over the duchies of Holland, East Frisia, Hanover? pretty much all the Holy Roman Empire states except:
- Archduchy of Austria,
- the March of Brandenburg (though, the westerns parts of Brandenburg are considered part of Germany),
- the Kingdom of Bohemia,
- South Tyrol (why is this even independent?), and
- the Duchy of Carinthia (what's that olive thing?).
He is the suzerain of those states as Holy Roman Emperor, though. Is that red thing northeast of Bohemia part of the empire or independent?
Is Switzerland still in the empire? RL, its independence was recognized by Europe in 1648, after the wars of religion; but it is Alternative Earth. Also, can we just give South Tyrol to Germany? It's kind of weird for them to seize only the northern part.
About Hungary, Transylvania, and Wallachia: they gained independence after Germany beat up the Austrians, right? Are we knocking them into the Holy Roman Empire?
Hadash, in his wisdom, suggested my king's grandmother be a Hapsburg. Having a claim on Hapsburg lands could be why Germany attacked the Austrians. While he let Maria Theresa (who dies in 1780, btw) keep Austria proper, he could've taken the crowns of Bohemia and Hungary (and Transylvania and Wallachia ;D). Or would you guys rather they remain independent husks? I do want Bohemia, but I'm less interested in the other three. I'm not one to say no to more land, though~~
RE: Alt Earth OOC - Aerandariel - 06-07-2018
Awwwwwwwwww…. everything I would have picked is gone.
RE: Alt Earth OOC - Ayzek - 06-07-2018
WHAT WOULD YOU HAVE PICKED????
RE: Alt Earth OOC - Seperallis - 06-07-2018
(06-07-2018, 03:44 AM)Aerandariel Anakinexi Wrote: Awwwwwwwwww…. everything I would have picked is gone.Yeah, we can work out something. Let us know what you were hoping for, it would be great to have you in on this.
RE: Alt Earth OOC - Flo - 06-07-2018
yeah we can definitely change things. we havent gone 100% finalized yet by any means
RE: Alt Earth OOC - Ayzek - 06-08-2018
Re: Austria and Iberia. Blac has determined he wants Maria Theresa on the throne, so we're going with this altered timeline:
- a Hapsburg woman married the King of the Germans.
- Starting at some point between 1695 and 1710: The Hapsburg (Austria-Hungary-Bohemia) won the War of Spanish Succession against the Bourbons of Toulouse/Burgundy/Navarre with assistance from the King of the Germans/Holy Roman Emperor.
- 1740-1758: The War of Austrian Succession occurs between the Kingdom of Germany/Holy Roman Empire and Austria-Hungary-Bohemia/Iberia, with the son of the Hapsburg woman claiming the Austrian thrones. It ends with Maria Theresa giving up the thrones of Austria, Hungary, and Bohemia, but keeping the Iberian throne. The King of the Germans seizes the throne of Bohemia and directly annexes some Austrian lands, but leaves the throne of Austria to Maria Anna, Maria Theresa's younger sister. Hungary rejected the King of the Germans and instead elected its own king, while Transylvania declared independence and the count of South Tyrol refused to recognize the King of the Germans as Duke of Tyrol.
RE: Alt Earth OOC - Ayzek - 06-08-2018
After discussing with Flo and rolling dice, Flo and I have determined that the King of the Germans took the throne of Bohemia from Maria Theresa, but left the throne of the Archduchy of Austria to pass to Maria Anna, Maria Theresa's younger sister. During the war, the Hungarians elected their own king and Transylvania declared independence, while the count of South Tyrol has refused to recognize the King of the Germans as Duke of Tyrol.
RE: Alt Earth OOC - Seperallis - 06-09-2018
Gonna make up the recent history of Persia and plop it here, because I have to explain how the Qajar took power so much sooner than they otherwise should have. It may go elsewhere later. I don't expect anyone to remember any of these names.
Anyway.
The official history goes pretty normally until about 1774. Karim Khan Zand unites Persia (except for Khorasan, where the Afsharid descendants of Nader Shah cling to power, and Baluchistan) and is a generous, modest, fair and effective ruler who surrounds himself with useful talent - a rare thing for the time. Under him, Persia is able to recover and know peace after decades of strife, relations with the Anglo-French Commonwealth are improved and an East India Company trading post is established, and several architectural projects are completed. However, relations with the Ottoman Empire are soured when the Ottoman governor of Iraq, Omar Pasha, dismissed the ruler of the principality of Baban (who had started to favor the Zand), seized the bodies and belongings of Iranian pilgrims that had dies in a plague in Iraq, and started excising payment from Iranian pilgrims to visit their Shia holy sites in Iraq. However, before action can be taken, Karim Khan dies in March of 1774 after months of illness, most likely tuberculosis.
After following his death, the Persian Zand kingdom collapses into civil war and splits apart amongst different factions: the Zand family was split in two as to who would succeed, where Zaki Khan allies with Ali-Morad Khan Zand to declare Karim's incapable second son Mohammad Ali as the new ruler; opposing them, Shaykh Ali Khan and Nazar Ali Khan and others support Karim's eldest son, Abol-Fath Khan Zand. Meanwhile, Mohammad Qajar returned to his home in Astarabad and gathered an army, and the western states in Kartli-Keketi (the eastern half of Georgia), Azerbaijan, and others made known their independence from Persian rule. But let's break it down.
An History of Recent Persian Events
1774
The first to seize power was Zaki Khan, known for being cruel and opportunistic. Immediately after Karim's death, he had everyone in Shiraz who opposed him killed; only Sadiq Khan escaped. Zaki nearly killed Abol-Fath and ended the conflict right there, but the boy's mother interceded, and so Zaki showed a rare moment of compassion by installing both of Karim's sons as joint puppet "rulers" with himself as regent with all power.
Agha Mohammad Khan-e Qajar was a "prisoner" and advisor in Karim Khan's court as an assurance for the Qajars to remain at peace prior to the latter's death, who had been castrated as a boy after being captured by his father's Afsharid enemies (hence the title "Agha," given to palace eunuchs). When Agha Mohammad heard of Karim's death, he took a small group of family and trusted friends and fled Shiraz. Zaki Zand could not allow this and sent his ally and head of the royal army Ali-Morad to capture and bring back Agha Mohammad; instead, Ali-Morad rebelled when he reached Isfahan and gave his allegiance to Abol-Fath. Zaki Zand gathered another army and headed for Isfahan, leaving his son Akbar to defend Shiraz. On the way, he made camp at a village that owed itself to Isfahan, where he then committed such unspeakable atrocities against its people that even his own men were shocked and unsettled; that evening, several of his chieftains having witnessed the events of the day murdered Zaki in his tent, still in the village, and his army dispersed.
Mohammad Ali Khan died of a "heart attack" two weeks later. Sadiq Khan returned with an army from the east and entered Shiraz with no resistance, Akbar having already fled. He installed Abol-Fath as sole ruler of Iran and set himself up as regent; even though he held all real power and his "ruler" was content with the pleasures of the palace, the arrangement didn't suit Sadiq, and so he blinded and deposed of his puppet two months later in late August and proclaimed himself Shah.
MEANWHILE, Agha Mohammad had used the turmoil to escape. He met with the chiefs of the Develu clan in Tehran and made peace, gaining their support and uniting the two Qoyunlu tribes. From there, with a larger entourage now, he visited his father's grave before heading to Mazandaran province. His brothers Reza Qoli and Morteza Qoli knew of his plans to establish his domain, and met him in the field; Agha Mohammad defeated them both, conquering Mazandaran and establishing his base of power. Some months later, Reza returned with help from an army from Gilan in the east, and captured Agha Mohammad in battle. Upon hearing the news, Morteza hurried from Astarabad with an army and had him freed. The three brothers met to settle their issues, and while Reza and Agha Mohammad were successful, Morteza remained discontented and fled to their enemies in Isfahan, but eventually returned and was given rulership of Astarabad. The matter was settled.
However, peace couldn't last as Ali-Morad led an army to Mazandaran to put an end to the Qajar before they could become more of a threat. Agha Mohammad took the field and thwarted the invading force, then used this momentum to capture several key cities beyond the mountains. With his enemy routed and his lands and reputation secure, he returned north and negotiated the vassalship of Gilan. Winter and a temporary end to hostility saw him in control of Iran's Caspian coast
1775
Compared to the shifting fortunes and fratricide of the last year, 1775 remained mostly quiet everywhere except in the north. The ruler of Gilan, Hedayat-Allah renounced his allegiance to the Qajar and defected to the Zand, prompting Agha Mohammad to invade weeks later; when his diplomats failed to placate the invaders, he fled to Shirvan in Azerbaijan, and Agha Mohammad easily raided the capital, claiming both the province and the traitor's treasure. Now on the move and well-funded, Agha Mohammad's army continued the march: he crossed the mountains, leaving his brother Jafar Qoli to defend their home while he crossed into and defeated the defenders at and taking Qazvin, the old Saffavid capital; he marched on, defeating a Zand army in the field to seize Zanjan.
While he was away, Ali-Morad sent an army commanded by his cousin Rustum to raze the Qajar homes and take Mazandaran, but the army wasn't large and he wasn't counting on Jafar Qoli's defense, who shattered the army in the pass with the help of turkic tribesmen and allies from Khiva, then drive south to take Karaj before besieging Tehran, but had to withdraw under a stubborn defense and a lack of supplies. Agha Mohammad returned with his army some months later and re-instigated the siege, but a plague started to spread in the town before making its way to Agha Mohammad's camp, forcing him to return to Mazandaran.
Down south, Ali-Morad's ambition had made him grown tired of Sadiq Khan's claim as Shah of Persia; after sending his cousin north to deal with the Qajar, he gathered his own army and marched onto Shiraz. The city was still weakened from the early conflicts and much of Sadiq's men had returned to their homes to the east; betrayed from within, the gates of Shiraz opened, and Ali-Morad easily claimed it, putting Sadiq Kahn and all his brothers and sons to the sword - except for Jafar Khan, with whom he had made a "prior arrangement" - and claimed the Zand throne.
1776
in early Spring of 1776, firmly in control of the Zand throne, Ali-Morad continued his war with the Qajar. With both Shiraz and Isfahan firmly in his control he gathered an overwhelming force to capture Mazandaran under his son's command, using the huge show of force to earn a quick surrender from its people. Unable to gather men for a defense, Agha Mohammad retreated with his followers to Astarabad, and began to fortify his position. Following this initial success, Ali-Morad sent another army under his relative Mohammad Zadir to finish his rival at Astarabad, who laid siege to the city. However, the city was prepared for the siege and had ample stockpiles, while Agha Mohammad led raids on the countryside to scorch the land and deprive his enemy of fresh provisions, and this eventually forced the invaders to withdraw enough for Agha Mohammad to sally forth and defeat the Zand army in the field, turning their withdraw into a full rout
Mohammad Zadir fled into the Karakum Desert, but was captured and killed by the Qajar's Yamut allies. Agha Mohammad followed this victory by defeating the Zand garrison at Ashraf; autumn, he had systematically picked off the Zand armies on his land and driven them out. Following the failure at Astarabad, Ali-Morad gathered another army under Rustum to pressure his rival in the north, but he was once again defeated.
1777
Ali-Morad was gathering troops for another expedition when Jafar Khan, last remaining son of Sadiq Khan, besieged Isfahan with some of his father's men that he had been able to gather together once again. Hearing of the siege, Ali-Morad attempted to return with what army he had, but died on the road from "unknown circumstances" nearby. Jafar Khan crowned himself the new king. Hearing of another Zand leader's death, Agha Mohammad used the time to attack Tehran, but he was again rebuffed, as the defenders mocked that they would only open their gates for the King of Iran. Undeterred, he set to make himself King, and moved his army south to take Isfahan.
By this time, the people of Iran were growing weary of the warfare and disastrous mismanagement of the country at the hands of Karim Khan Zand's floundering successors. Hearing of the coming attack, Jafar sent men to stop the advance, but they withdrew from the field without a fight near Qom. Irritated, Jafar sent another, larger army, but they were defeated by the smaller Qajar force at Kashan; paniced, Jafar Khan abandoned the city and fled to Shiraz in such a hurry that Agha Mohammad was able to claim both the remainder of the Zand treasury, and Jafar Khan's harem.
Even though in decline, the city was still much richer than his northern holdings and in a good central locations; up into the summer, Agha Mohammad made the city into his headquarters. He launched a campaign into the south of Persian Iraq where he defeated a Zand army and convinced the Bakhtiari people to accept him as their suzerain. By now, nearly all of the west and north of Persia was under his control. He appointed a governor to manage and continue his conquests before personally leaving for Tehran; when he arrived, the town finally submitted and accepted him as sovereign, and he proclaimed it his new capital. It was clear he saw himself as the new Shah, though he actively avoided using the title. Just about the same time, his armies captured Hamadan from the Zand.
Months later, Jafar Khan launched a campaign of reconquest while his enemies were resting in the north. He recaptured Isfahan late summer, then split his army to attack Kashan, Qom, and Hamadan, but local armies stopped him at all three locations, and he was forced to return to Isfahan. When Agha Mohammad received word that Isfahan had been lost, he quickly moved to retake it, forcing Jafar Khan to retreat to Shiraz once again, where winter conditions put a halt to further plans even though a revolt in the north had forced his rival to move away once again.
![[Image: oW41RAG.png]](https://i.imgur.com/oW41RAG.png)
1778
Agha Mohammad had to begin the year dealing with another problem up north: Hedayat-Allah had returned to Gilan - allegedly with Russian help - and was making far too much noise to be left alone. The Qajar army moved into Gilan easily and received much assistance from local rulers and people; witnessing events, the Russian consulate in Gilan betrayed Hedayat-Allah and supplied the Qajar with weaponry to end the feud, forcing him to flee once more to Shirvan. Before Agha Mohammad could pursue the matter to a decisive conclusion in Azerbaijan, urgent word was received, that Isfahan was once again under threat.
In late winter, the ruler of Yazd, Taqi Khan, had rebelled from Zand rule and defeated Jafar Khan in the field. Seeking to make his own mark, he then invaded Qajar lands and marched on Isfahan. Jafar Qoli was the city's governor, and he brought an army forth from the city and routed Taqi Khan before he could reach his goal. Agha Mohammad arrived shortly after and had a discussion with Jafar Qoli, before spending several days convincing the captured Taqi Khan to accept Qajar suzerainty; he eventually relented.
Agha Mohammad took his army from Isfahan and headed to Shiraz. However, the city is strongly fortified and difficult to besiege, and so he instead hid much of his army and attempted to bait Jafar Khan into leaving to attack, but the bait wasn't taken and the Qajar army was forced to retire and returned to Tehran. With his enemy once again in the north, Jafar Khan gathered another army to try for Isfahan and defeated a small force of local tribesmen sent to stop him, but he immediately retreated back to Shiraz upon hearing of Agha Mohammad returning with another army; still not confident in besieging the Zand capital, the Qajar leader leader returned north.
Jafar Khan contemplated another attempt at Isfahan, but he was never able to carry it out: the son of Ali-Morad, Sayed Morad Khan, was a member of Jafar's court as governor of Shiraz and had suffered at the hands of his lord, on one occasion even being arrested with his family and beaten on Jafar's orders to force him to give up his wealth. Tired of the ill-treatment, Sayed Morad and several other conspirators used a female slave to poison Jafar Khan then accosted him while he was weakened, killing him and throwing his head from the castle. With the deed done, Sayed Morad proclaimed himself the next King.
After the murder of Jafar Khan, Lotf Ali led his army and marched upon Shiraz to reclaim the throne from his father's murderer, and besieged the city for 4 months.
1779
Lotf Ali was rather popular with the people of Shiraz, and as the siege grew longer, Sayed Morad was faced with more and more unrest against him within his own walls, and even his own warriors; faced with an impossible choice, Sayed surrendered, but was executed anyway.
Lotf Ali Khan was crowned in March, and came to power while public confidence in the Zands was at its lowest and local leaders regularly began aligning themselves to the ever more powerful and popular eunuch Agha Mohammad; one such leader was the governor of Kerman, who refused to acknowledge the new Zand king. Lotf Ali was forced to gather an army and lead an attack against the rebel, but an unusually harsh late winter gave way to an unusually warn spring, making bogs of river crossings and festering such diseases that made the march through the Zagros Mountains deadly, and he lost many of his men to exposure and plague; the campaign was subsequently a failure, and he returned to Shiraz. With so much misfortune, strife and the fratricide having claimed so many of his family, he began to question the loyalties of those around the Zand family, especially the Jewish kalantar of Fars, Haji Ibrahim.
Meanwhile in the north, Agha Mohammad heard of the strife in the south and planned to use the spare time to put an end to a particular thorn in his side: Hedayat-Allah was again causing trouble and threatening to return with the help of Azerbaijan khanates, and so the Qajar gathered an army force the breakaway rebels back under Persian hegemony and end the threat to Gilan. Agha Mohammad gathered with him a force of some 20,000 men and sent an ultimatum to the south caucasian khanates: acknowledge and pay tribute to Iranian suzerainty once again and give up Hedayat-Allah to Qajar custody, or face invasion. The ultimatum was rebuffed, Azerbaijani khanates instead forming a hasty alliance in a bid for final and true independence.
And so in early Spring while Lotf Ali was having troubles with Kerman, Agha Mohammad crossed into Tarum and sent a final missive to the Talysh Khanate with whom Hedayat-Allah was taking refuge, before marching forth on Sarab, defeating a small force of the coalition and sacking the city. He then met the main force of the enemy around Ardabil and won an easy victory over the smaller force, who fled further north, and claimed the famed city. Next he doubled back towards Tabriz, to gain the last jewel of Azerbaijan and crush the last portal to major resistance against him.
The Azerbaijani chiefs, knowing there was no honest hope to repel the invasion, sent missive after missive to Ottoman governors and even the sultan shortly after the ultimatums had arrived, asking for their intersession: an army from Van of 10,000 was the first to arrive and camped near Tabriz, followed by an army from Sharazor of another 15,000 some weeks later. Agha Mohammad arrived in the hills overlooking Tabriz and saw the combined Ottoman and Azerbaijani army (or what remained of the latter, anyway), and was in a conundrum; The Caucasus had been an integral part of Iran for hundreds of years and they needed pacified, yet he knew he did not have the resources for a full campaign against Persia's main rival, and time was not on his side as Lotf Ali would surely be licking his wounds and forming another army against him within months. Instead, he sent a messenger with a proposal: Qajar troops would withdraw from Azerbaijan and guarantee peace with the Ottomans for five years in both Iraq and Anatolia for the heads of Hedayat-Allah and the Azerbaijani chiefs; for such a small price, the Ottomans accepted, and Agha Mohammad returned to Tehran satisfied in the punishment meted against the traitors that had caused him such headaches over the years.
He arrived in Tehran just in time to receive news of another attack on Isfahan by Zand forces under Lotf Ali, and rushed his army south to meet him; however, before making it a few days from Shiraz, the Zand ruler's general mutinied and took several of his troops with him. Lotf Ali Khan fled back to Shiraz with what remained of his army, but found the gates barred against him by Haji Ibrahim. Most of his remaining men deserted him, and he fled southeast to Bushehr, where hhe used the sympathies gained from his youth, courage, and bad fortune to gather enough followers for a small army; with their help he handily defeated a larger force from the governor of Kazerun and took the fortress in a counterattack, and began using it as his new base. Emboldened, in mid autumn, he returned to Shiraz.
In the meantime since Lotf Ali left, Agha Mohammad had arrived in Shiraz, where Haji Ibrahim opened the gates and offered the prized city to him, where he stayed to rest his army and gather more troops for a final campaign. It was some weeks later when Lotf Ali returned to the area with his small force, while Agha Mohammad rode forth with a vastly larger 45,000 man army; the Zand leader retreated, and the Qajar army pursued him to Persepolis, where they made camp. Seeing an opportunity, Lotf Ali gave the command for a night raid on the Qajar camp, where he scored a great victory and scattered his much larger enemy, though he thought the attack had killed Ahga Mohammad and so gave the order to spread out and rest, instead of giving pursuit; morning came, and the call to prayer from the Qajar camp proved that he had not only failed to kill his enemy, but that they had regrouped and were ready for the day's battle.
Unable to face his enemy on the open field, he withdrew to Kazerun, but he was pursued and forced to flee to Khorasan - and then Kandahar - when the Qajar army stormed the fortress. Agha Mohammad returned to Shiraz as victor and conqueror.
1780
RE: Alt Earth OOC - Aerandariel - 06-09-2018
(06-07-2018, 01:58 PM)Seperallis Wrote:(06-07-2018, 03:44 AM)Aerandariel Anakinexi Wrote: Awwwwwwwwww…. everything I would have picked is gone.Yeah, we can work out something. Let us know what you were hoping for, it would be great to have you in on this.
Well I was hoping to do something with Virginia, creating an empire or something in the southern United States and try to expand into the Great Lakes.
That said, there does seem to be an opportunity for a Native-dominated nation in the Great Lakes territory. Specifically, if my history is correct, the Shawnee were prevalent in Ohio and Indiana during this time period. In an alternate history, I would want the Shawnee to seek to unite the different tribes and nations around the Great Lakes. Or maybe the Iroquois? I dunno. So that's it, either something with Virginia or the Great Lakes.