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+----- Thread: Working Akitsu Out (/thread-519.html)
Working Akitsu Out - Zabuza825 - 07-10-2017
So, now the clock is pretty freaking close to the deadling for me to start the civil war, and it's looking like I won't be able to make that deadline. And since I'd rather not do any historical RP's until I get the historical expansion RP I have planned (but not yet carried out) out of the way, I'm stuck in a pickle.
If I want Akitsu to go back to the old government, I'm basically left with two option. Internal revolt or external intervention. First, let's go over the former option.
Internal revolt is exactly like it sounds like. Civil war. Because there is no way in hell the fascists are going to peacefully let go of their power. If they go down, they will go down guns blazing.
But the original inspiration would be gone, and after Treizen the fascists would (assuming the old Emperor is still uncooperative) kill the current ruling Emperor (secretly), install their own puppet-successor, and then publicly claim that the Emperor died of "natural causes". The crown falling to the fascists would be a massive demoralizing blow to anybody in Akitsu wishing to bring back the old government, which means it's unlikely that the revelation that the fascists were making WMD's alone would be enough to cause rebellion.
So what could cause rebellion then?
Let me introduce to you a real-life Japanese philosophical concept called gekokujou (下剋上). It literally translates to "lower overcomes higher". In real-life Japan this is used to refer to the way that Japan was socially in times like the Nanboku-cho Period and Sengoku Period (similarly, it would be used in RP to describe Akitsu during the Eisen Period). At the time, it was a common occurrence for a lower clan to rebel against a higher clan when they were displeased in some way. This is part of the reason why the RL Sengoku Period (and IC Eisen Period) lasted so long. Clans would get stronger, and then be betrayed by their "allies" and be punched back to square one. It's also the reason why the solid Oda-Tokugawa Alliance was so key in Oda Nobunaga, Toyotomi Hideyoshi, and Tokugawa Ieyasu unifying Japan. And for those of you that know your Akitian history, this would also be the reason why in Akitsu the Eisen Period didn't end with one side unifying all Akitsu but instead ended in a tense "truce" between three kingdoms that weren't strong enough to beat each other.
Theoretically, I could still have the civil war in Akitsu start at any time. All I need to do is bring back the philosophical concept of gekokujou, and have the recently-drafted and highly discontent new recruits in the Akitian military rebel against the fascist government.
But this would be very, VERY problematic. And it's not only because of the results, but because of the very nature of the concept that is gekokujou.
First off, any rebellion caused by this most likely would not have any centralized leadership. It would be a huge amount of low-ranking troops that didn't want to be in the army rebelling independently of one another, most likely only coordinated to the extent that they rebel at the same time. There would be no new central authority to take charge of all the various group, the most we can hope for is a loose alliance of these various rebel factions that probably share the same end goal (at least at first, will get into that more later) but would have vastly different political ideals (some would be conservative, some centrist/moderate, others liberal, some would be left-wing nationalists, others right-wing nationalists, etc, etc).
Now that by itself probably wouldn't be too big of an issue, though for the short-term Akitian political stability would be compromised as they would want to restore democracy and the old government and would work towards that. That is, if AND ONLY IF gekokujou was left out of the mix. Gekokujou would completely eliminate any chance of this loose coalition of rebels being able to smoothly transition back to the old government, and there wouldn't be political stability even if the transition back to the old government is successful.
If a rebellion based upon the idea of gekokujou happens and it restores the old Akitian government, the effect would essentially be the affirmation and legitimization of political violence. Because that is what gekokujou would be used for, political violence to bring about political change.
So, getting back to the part I said I'd get back to, it's true that at first the various rebel groups would have the same end-goal: restore the original government of Akitsu. But what about after that is successful? Sure, some groups would lay-down their weapons, but it would be a hard process.
Now imagine that after election, the new government leans to the political left. Now say that there is a hard-right rebel group that hasn't quite disarmed yet that is absolutely enraged at this new government and the way they govern. What's stopping gekokujou from becoming a justification for them to resume violence? The answer is simple: there's nothing stopping that. The same would be true if the new government leans to the political right and if there was a hard-left rebel group that hasn't quite disarmed yet.
In fairness, at first the only people doing these acts of violence would likely be extremists. But violence has a way of making moderates, I don't know, LESS MODERATE. So this could very quickly snowball out of control.
Worst-case scenario, the "restored government" devolves into another civil war Libya-style (this is a result I want to avoid at any cost).
Best-case scenario would be the "restored government" being plagued by political violence for at least a decade (possibly longer), leading to a era in Akitian politics similar to the situation in RL Japanese politics during the 1930's that historians describe as "government by assassination".
So the internal rebellion idea isn't ideal. What's the alternative.
Well, my original plan. Akitsu goes and starts conquering other Ostaran nations """liberating""" Ostaran nations from """Brigidnan imperialist controlled puppet-governments""". Eventually other nations get angry at Akitsu for invading it's neighbors so much upset that their former puppet-colonies are being rightfully freed by Akitsu. The other nations either directly intervene militarily, or take some action against Akitsu that causes Akitsu to declare war on them. A fight between these other countries and Akitsu ensues, and Akitsu loses.
This would be a long and bloody war, with many places being destroyed. Not ideal either.
So, I'm stuck between a pile of shit and another pile of shit.
What are your opinions? I need to figure this shit out..... so yeah.....
RE: Working Akitsu Out - BrumBrum - 07-10-2017
Proper international war would be best
RE: Working Akitsu Out - Alvino Castillon - 07-10-2017
(07-10-2017, 02:35 PM)BrumBrum Wrote: Proper international war would be best
Speak for yourself.
I have a number of mixed thoughts on all of this, but you all know my line of thinking by this point. I'm will just say what the consequences of an actual war will be and a Kazemuran victory.
In such a case Kazemura will probably play this out in a far more brutal fashion to send a stronger message to the world: That fascism or aggression in Ostara shall be met with a swift end by the sword. Literally they would push for the harshest retribution against the fascist leadership in Akitsu: execution. Brutal, bloody, execution. Possibly in public. They would probably be more favorable towards a joint occupation of the country during its reconstruction as well.
This would also have greater ramifications for how Kazemura views the world and its allies. Specifically it would become a more proactive player in regional affairs to try and become a unspoken leader of the region. It would also then make it more likely that Kazemura would be willing to take a more active (and violent) approach if needed. This is largely because Kazemurans would feel largely to blame for allowing this to spiral so much out of control and not intervening in the entire mess sooner.
To be frank I OOCly am not thrilled with the idea of having a war given that the entire timeline up to this point has been shaky at best and literally caps locking at each other in chat at worst. But at this point it doesn't really matter. ICly though, Kazemura would be far more against the fascists and would take a far more proactive foreign policy. I don't know if that's what people want though, but I'm playing with the hand that I've been dealt.
Edit: By the way, the moment Akitsu shows any intention of taking another nation's territory is the moment Kazemura snaps and begins its war. As in, it will act before anyone else and take the lead in this war come Hell or high water.
RE: Working Akitsu Out - Flo - 07-10-2017
lol you should try to liberate that one floland island o/
that would kick up some hornets
RE: Working Akitsu Out - Rommy - 07-10-2017
Singan is going to follow Kazemura's lead on this, and will actively get involved this go around....not just naval allotments but rather full on intervention by Singan alongside Kazemura.
RE: Working Akitsu Out - Zabuza825 - 07-10-2017
(07-10-2017, 03:38 PM)Alvino Castillon Wrote: Speak for yourself.
I have a number of mixed thoughts on all of this, but you all know my line of thinking by this point. I'm will just say what the consequences of an actual war will be and a Kazemuran victory.
In such a case Kazemura will probably play this out in a far more brutal fashion to send a stronger message to the world: That fascism or aggression in Ostara shall be met with a swift end by the sword. Literally they would push for the harshest retribution against the fascist leadership in Akitsu: execution. Brutal, bloody, execution. Possibly in public. They would probably be more favorable towards a joint occupation of the country during its reconstruction as well.
This would also have greater ramifications for how Kazemura views the world and its allies. Specifically it would become a more proactive player in regional affairs to try and become a unspoken leader of the region. It would also then make it more likely that Kazemura would be willing to take a more active (and violent) approach if needed. This is largely because Kazemurans would feel largely to blame for allowing this to spiral so much out of control and not intervening in the entire mess sooner.
To be frank I OOCly am not thrilled with the idea of having a war given that the entire timeline up to this point has been shaky at best and literally caps locking at each other in chat at worst. But at this point it doesn't really matter. ICly though, Kazemura would be far more against the fascists and would take a far more proactive foreign policy. I don't know if that's what people want though, but I'm playing with the hand that I've been dealt.
Edit: By the way, the moment Akitsu shows any intention of taking another nation's territory is the moment Kazemura snaps and begins its war. As in, it will act before anyone else and take the lead in this war come Hell or high water.
Setting aside the fact that public executions would be viewed with huuuuge distaste by the Akitian public and be used by fascist movements in Akitsu later on to prove that Kazemura is a country that "betrayed Akitsu and all of Ostara to imperialist Brigidnan forces" later on.
This is just setting Kazemura up for conflict with Akitsu later on down the road, regardless of the answer to the question of "will Akitsu go Weimar Germany and just elect the fascists into power later on in anger". Akitsu was already on the road to a more proactive foreign policy before this, with the Nationalist Party that was the last staunchly isolationist political party in Akitsu in part abandoning that position. After the restoration of the old government and recovery of the economy, it's easy to see how Akitsu would want to become a regional leader (NOT the sole regional leader, but a leading regional power). If Kazemura wants to become the leader of the region though, and isn't willing to share that mantle with others (for the record I'm just assuming this), that'll cause a lot of resentment.
Also, I'm not saying that the war (involving Akitsu invading others) HAS to happen. But the alternative isn't exactly the best either.
EDIT: Also, considering that the fascists in Akitsu will have had links to far-right movements elsewhere in Ostara, I'm fairly certain where they stand on the issue of invading others is clear. Also, at no point will Akitsu really "annex" any territory that belongs to other countries. But if there is an active independence movement in an area, don't be surprised if the fascists hijack that movement to create a not-Manchukuo.
RE: Working Akitsu Out - Flo - 07-11-2017
do it boiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii
RE: Working Akitsu Out - Zabuza825 - 07-11-2017
(07-11-2017, 11:33 AM)Flo Wrote: do it boiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii
That doesn't help me. At all.
RE: Working Akitsu Out - Flo - 07-11-2017
(07-11-2017, 12:07 PM)Zabuza825 Wrote:(07-11-2017, 11:33 AM)Flo Wrote: do it boiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii
That doesn't help me. At all.
Just relaxxxxxx man, everything will be fine. What are you so worried about anyway?
If you guys want, we can look to "fix" the timeline to establish a proper present state and then you guys can move forward. I can mediate this if you want and then come to a final decision, assuming the roleplay god is cool with it. Erasing everything kind of means everything you wrote was a bit of a waste, which shouldnt be, since you did work on it, spent time, etc. Its not hard to realign past events so they are more coherent so you guys can move forward, or at the very least so /you/ can move forward with Akitsu.
What are your thoughts about that, maybe that helps a bit more o/