The Official Game Status Update Thread

The Official Game Status Update Thread - Printable Version

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RE: The Official Game Status Update Thread - Nentsia - 09-23-2016

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HAH! I finally managed to nullify Blac's annoying attacks down the flanks with my 5-3-2 formation! For the first time ever, Blac and I had a game that ended in a goalless draw! Isn't that great? Italian football commentator Gianni Brera once argued that the perfect game of football would result in 0-0. If no mistakes are made, no goals can be scored. So the perfect game can only end without goals. Congratulations, Blac, we played the perfect game of football. I may have had only 40% of the ball posession, but my team prevented yours from scoring. Finally! Ironically enough the most Fascist football team in all of Italy did it against the Germans from Schalke 04.

But honestly, that 4-2-3-1 is one of the toughest formations to deal with. It deploys four attacking players, who are likely joined by two or three more players. A 5-3-2 can stop them however. It has been proven!

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RE: The Official Game Status Update Thread - Blacaria - 09-23-2016

Bravo Nents Bravo! It was an excellent game I must say! The following two matches were even better Wink

RE: The Official Game Status Update Thread - Nentsia - 09-24-2016

This is a good recipe for some of the most boring, uninspiring, dull, lame, sluggish, tedious, lifeless, dry, lackluster football I have ever produced in FM. I present you my Dynamo Kyiv 4-4-2:

(They were very effective at breaking bones and legs of their opponents I must add)

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RE: The Official Game Status Update Thread - Blacaria - 09-24-2016

I attest to the damage that will be caused to the opposing teams, I lost four players myself to this beast...

RE: The Official Game Status Update Thread - Nentsia - 09-24-2016

(09-24-2016, 01:06 AM)Blacaria Wrote: I attest to the damage that will be caused to the opposing teams, I lost four players myself to this beast...

I think one of the causes was something I not often do, which was very tight man-marking. The upside was that if your attacker received the ball in my third, he'd get knocked off his feet. The downside was when I recovered the ball, my own players were out of position and fairly close to their immediate opponent, thus reducing my own passing options.

RE: The Official Game Status Update Thread - Nentsia - 09-24-2016

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Community Shield [Image: Ej0K8c6.png?1]

0 - 1

It is not often that I manage to win from Blac on the pitch, but when I do, I win a prize....
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My and Blac started a season in the Premier League. Blac relieved the poor Arsenal fans of Arsene Wenger, and I knocked Conte off his seat at Chelsea. Or technically still Mourinho in the game. I had a good pre-season with wins over Dortmund and Barcelona and the signing of AS Roma defender Kostas Manolas. (My best defenders at Chelsea were Terry and Cahill... relics from a bygone era.)

Blac's silly Arsenal had apparently signed Higuain from Napoli, but I bet he arrived being overweight in London. He wasn't impressive in our game at least. The Community Shield is the first official game of the season between the league and cup winners of the previous season, and a prize can be won. It was quite an amusing game from the start, with Arsenal having the ball, and my Chelsea having some rapid counter-attacks on interceptions at the back. Arsenal in turn had some goal-scoring opportunities from crosses and corners where my goalkeeper didn't look too convincing.

My game plan is quite simple, as usual: defend, defend, defend, and maybe, after some more defending, try to score. Diego Costa's role was to drop deep, annoy Arsenal's defenders, strike down their midfielders with his elbows, and in the transition phase, like the rest of the team with Falcao. The other main threat of my team would come from the flanks, with Hazard often drifting inside and Wilian providing crosses and using his speed on the counter. Fabregas played as a director from the back, only joining the attack once the team had stable control of the ball.

Both teams didn't succeed in creating many scoring chances, but it was an interesting game nevertheless. In the second half I believe it was Hazard cutting inside with the ball from the left flank (or it was Costa) to give a sharp cross for my tireless defender Kurt Zouma. Koscielny pulled him to the ground and gave a penalty, which Hazard scored. F**K YEAH!

After that goal I decided to give up football and erect a fortress to keep Arsenal from equalizing. Arsenal struggled the entire game against my rather static backline of four hard-tackling defenders who basically never gave away space and always preserved numerical superiority against Arsenal's 3 attackers. Matic and Fabregas dropped deep to shield the defence in the center, and Wilian, Hazard, and Costa tracked back to provide extra cover. Falcao remained up front as a lone striker. The structure held out against Arsenal's pressure and won the Community Shield. <3

Statistics:

Ball Posession
Arsenal 55% -- 45% Chelsea

Shots/on goal
Arsenal 12/3 -- 10/4 Chelsea

Fouls
Arsenal 14 -- 24 Chelsea
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RE: The Official Game Status Update Thread - Flo - 09-24-2016

SIMPLY BEAUTIFUL! A WIN WE WILL SING ABOUT FOR THE AGES

RE: The Official Game Status Update Thread - Nentsia - 10-07-2016

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Reflections on playing against Blacaria

After having played a lot of games against Blac, and I will not deny it, losing about 80%, drawing about 15%, and winning only occasionally, I do start to see some patterns.

First of all, I noticed Blac does not like it when I play with Argentine teams. As Boca Juniors I won my first games against Blac, and I also beat him with River Plate. I, on the other hand, don't like it when Blac takes Man City because there is just no way of stopping them.

But what frustrates me is this pattern: when I confront Blac in a 3-5-2 formation I cannot seem to stop his attacking waves coming at my goal. With AC Milan, on a rare occasion, I beat Blac's 4-2-3-1 with 3-2, but only because two of my defenders miraculously scored. With Lazio Roma I once succeeded in keeping the score at 0-0, having spent the entire game inside my own penalty box. With both teams, I got hammered the next round.

Against Inter Milan I saw the definite proof of where my 3-5-2 gets defeated by Blac's teams: on the wing. Antonelli was rushing on the left wing with the ball, but lost it in Blac's final third to his full-back. Palacio was sent deep along the open flank, hit the early cross, and Icardi - a natural goalscorer - got to the ball and worked it into my goal. I can have 3 central defenders, I could have as many as 6, none of them would be able to prevent such a goal if my flank is that exposed.

My 3-5-2 works always for me, because I use it in Italy, where almost nobody plays 4-2-3-1. In Italy they've never heard of ''wingers''. My 3 central defenders are set up to deal with 2-striker systems, while my wing-backs are calculated to deal with only 1 direct opponent, and my defensive midfielder provides extra cover against the opponent's Trequartista. In RL, my 3-5-2 would not necessarily get into trouble against a team playing a lone striker and wingers. The 3 central defenders would simply position wider, so that the two outer central defenders would mark the wingers. The middle defender would mark the striker, and the defensive midfielder would mark Blac's attacking midfielder.

In the game however, they do not behave this way. The 3 central defenders stick to their positions. As a result, the lone striker becomes a constant source of confusion among them. If he moves to the left, my right Stopper would mark him. But if he stays in the middle, and only starts moving when the ball is played into space, confusion arises. My 2 stoppers don't know who should be marking him, and my middle defender is usually on cover - therefore not allowed to tight mark. A sort of no-man's land exists in the middle of my 3-man defence, which provides Blac's strikers with the liberty they need to get to the cross or the through ball before my defenders can. Meanwhile, the wings are overrun because the wing-backs don't get their support from the central defenders. Sometimes I tried to remedy this by keeping my wing-backs very deep, essentially transforming my formation into a very rigid 5-3-2, which is basically a return to old-fashioned Catenaccio that reigned in Italy during the 1960's. But the weakness of that formation, and my remedy, is that the team keeps all its players behind the ball and is unable to create any real scoring opportunities. I get locked in my own area, and it won't hold out against Blac's pressure. His teams attack with 4 players, and 4 more players provide attacking support. That's 8 in total, against 8 of mine defending. No matter how good my players are, if they have to defend like that for 90 minutes they will make defensive mistakes. Not to mention the constant source of confusion caused by the lone striker.

The mobility of my wing-backs is the key to my formula: they enable a defensive formation to rapidly transform itself into an attacking formation that attacks down the wings (where there is space) and that attacks in great numbers. If I keep my wing-backs deep, I will force myself to break out through the middle. With 3 central midfielders and 2 strikers, that could be a possibility. But Blac's 4-2-3-1 is, positionally, balanced enough to smother any attacks down the center. He has 2 central defenders, each marking my strikers, plus 2 central midfielders screening the defence. This central box can relatively easily cut off the supply lines from my central midfield to my strikers, reducing my ball posession and counter-attacks. I end up seeing less and less of the ball, and being under more and more pressure. It is just waiting until the structure caves in.

I realized the wing problem quite early, which is why I began experimenting with a 4-4-2 against Blac. Carlo Ancelotti, the famous AC Milan manager, once already declared that the 4-4-2 is defensively the most solid football formation. And he can know it, for he was part of the legendary AC Milan team under Arrigo Sacchi and Fabio Capello that dominated Italy and Europe with a 4-4-2 system, boasting the best defence in the world. The 4-4-2, as a defensive formation, was later also embraced by other Italian masters such as Giovanni Trapattoni, Claudio Ranieri, Marcello Lippi (who won the 2006 world cup with it), Sven Goran Eriksson won Italian prizes with it with both Sampdoria and Lazio Roma. The 4-4-2 as a solid defensive shape returned to the world stage with Diego Simeone's Atletico, Claudio Ranieri's Leicester, Iceland, and Portugal at Euro 2016. The obvious advantage this gave me was the double coverage on the wings. But I was not very used to it, so I needed to find out for myself how to properly implement it against Blac's teams. Most of my wins (and draws) against Blac occurred when I deployed a 4-4-2 against him. For example, my Argentine teams (Boca and River) were all set up in a 4-4-2. Yesterday, when my AC Milan got hammered with 4-0 when I deployed it in a 5-3-2, I managed to win the final game with 1-0 when I set them up in a 4-4-2.

The difference is not just the coverage on the wings. In a 4-4-2 shape, my style of defending changes entirely. My 3-5-2 is a very structured way of defending: I invite the opponent forward and rely on my superior numbers in defence to absorb the pressure and hit on the counter attack. But against Blac, I believe this plays exactly into his hands. Because when his team gets invited forward, it does so with 8 players. The pressure on my 8 defending players becomes immense. Sooner or later, the house of cards collapses. In a 4-4-2 shape, its more about compact defending. It is basically similar to what teams like Leicester and Atletico Madrid do. The team sits in its own half, but makes the spaces in that area very small. Blac's players have much less time on the ball, they get sloppy, and they find no space through the defence. Playing down the wings is not as effective anymore either. The downside is that this compactness also limits the available space for my own players when they intercept the ball, thus reducing my own attacking abilities.

Theoretically, if I want to entirely neutralize Blac's 4-2-3-1 I'd have to deploy a 4-1-4-1 formation. This would provide double coverage on the wings against Blac's wingers, 2 central defenders to focus on his lone striker, 1 defensive midfielder to harass his attacking midfielder, and 2 central midfielders to keep Blac's 2 central midfielders busy. But that would mean I can deploy only 1 attacker. For me this is not an option. My goal is not to end every game with 0-0. My goal is to end it with 1-0 for me. So either it must be 2 strikers, or a lone striker supported by wingers.

The formation that would best exploit the defensive weaknesses of Blac's formation, ironically enough, is a 4-2-3-1 as well. This was clearly observed last year when Jurgen Klopp's Liverpool met his former team, Borussia Dortmund. Both played 4-2-3-1, and the final score was 4-3. Blac's 4-2-3-1 is a very flexible and therefore balanced formation, but not impenetrable. His central ''box'' of 4 in the middle of the pitch (2 central defenders + 2 central midfielders) leaves room for an attacking midfielder to play between the lines. So if you want to exploit defensive vulnerabilities of a 4-2-3-1, I'd start by deploying an attacking midfielder in between the opponent's defense and midfield. The second weakness of the 4-2-3-1, ironically again, is on the wings. In a 4-2-3-1 the wingers and the full-backs are at a relatively large distance from each other. If Blac's wingers fail to perform their defensive duties, this would enable to outnumber his full-backs by deploying wingers of my own supported by attacking full-backs. So the formation that is best capable at exploiting the ~potential~ weaknesses of Blac's 4-2-3-1 would be a 4-2-3-1.

In theory, a 4-1-2-3 could also work well against Blac. It would be similar to a 4-1-4-1, and neutralize all his attacking players, but the wingers would play more advanced up the pitch so that the striker isn't isolated. But for some reason, every time I deployed a 4-1-2-3 against Blac it wasn't very effective. In fact, these were some of the most boring games with little scoring chances on both sides. Some of my favorite alternative formations, 3-4-1-2 and 4-3-1-2, I wouldn't even dare to use against Blac because they are also vulnerable on the wings are particularly suited to Italian football.

I do have some ideas on how to potentially transform my 3-5-2 into something that can work against Blac. I could opt to use Antonio Conte's model for example. Conte succesfully used a 3-5-2 at Euro 2016 against teams like Spain and Belgium (Belgium also playing 4-2-3-1). But Conte does not use it in a traditional fashion of deploying a deep defense, with a Libero providing coverage, and wing-backs being launched into wide space in the counter attack. Conte pushes his entire formation much higher up the pitch, with effectively 5 players clogging the midfield and pressuring the opponent. The 3 defenders at the back each individually mark their opponent and use the offside trap. Rather than sitting deep and inviting the opponent forward, Conte's Italy (and his Juventus as well) seek to force the opponent into errors by cutting the supply lines from midfield to the attackers. Blac's 4-2-3-1 largely depends on the 2 central midfielders for linking the defence with the attack because his wingers stand rather far away from the full-backs. With 3 central midfielders, 2 central strikers, and 2 wing-backs joining the midfield, a 3-5-2 can easily dominate the middle of the pitch and ''cut'' those 2 central midfielders off the rest of the team. Conte's system succeeded in cutting the supply lines. I'm not sure however, whether it works in FM like that as well. It would require my 3 defenders to each pick up the correct opponent: Left Central Defender marks the Right Winger, Central Defender marks the Striker, and the Right Central Defender marks the Left Winger. When necessary, the wing-backs will also drop back and support the defense to revert back to a 5-man defense. But it only works if the game engine doesn't keep the 3 central defenders in the central core of the pitch. One of the standard instructions (which cannot be removed) for these players is to stick to their positions, which in Conte's 3-5-2 they should certainly not do. I am therefore skeptical whether it would work.

Another option to make a 3-5-2 work against Blac is by doing the opposite of what Conte is doing: 5-3-2. The Dutch team reached the World Cup semi finals with it under Louis van Gaal, Wales succesfully used it to reach the Euro 2016 semi finals (also defeating Belgium's 4-2-3-1) and lets not forget that the Greeks managed to win Euro 2004 with it. It must be said though, in the Euro 2004 final Greece encountered Portugal - playing 4-2-3-1. Otto Rehagel, the Greek manager, switched to a 4-4-2 and won with 1-0. The 5-3-2 set up should differ however from what I'd do in the Italian Serie A, because Blac uses a lone striker rather than 2 and a lot of danger comes from the wings. The advantage still of having essentially 5 defenders is that you always have a spare man, and can therefore allow greater role specialisation - thus have a better organized defence. But my usual organization would play into Blac's hands. The 5-3-2 would feature an alternative central organization aimed at dealing with a single striker, while keeping one of the wing-backs in position to defend the wing, and giving the other wing-back slightly more freedom to rush forward. Like Wales, this would enable the team to switch to a 4-man defense when in ball posession, and effectively become a 4-4-2 or a 4-3-3 depending on how far the wing-back pushes forward. By keeping 4 man at the back at all times, both flanks can be covered because it enables one of the central defenders to move wide and defend the space that the absent wing-back has left behind. Another key feature of the Welsh 5-3-2 is the central midfielders who moved wide to support the wing-backs with defending the flanks against the Belgians. This is also something of which I'm not sure whether its possible to replicate that in FM.

Show ContentHow the 3-5-2 should intelligently adapt to a 4-2-3-1:

Show ContentHow my 3-5-2 actually positions against a 4-2-3-1:

Show ContentAntonio Conte 3-5-2:

RE: The Official Game Status Update Thread - Nentsia - 10-12-2016

Reflections on playing against Blacaria Pt II

Time for Catenaccio

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(Gipo Viani, inventor of Catenaccio, with Giovanni Trapattoni)

First of all, Blacaria is unstoppable. His attack waves are simply too intense. Many crosses, many attackers, many runs, many scoring chances and corner kicks. So far, 4-4-2 is the only remedy I have against the insane intensity of his play. Therefore, this leaves me only one option: old-fashioned Italian Catenaccio.

I tried a more controlling, posession-oriented approach, using a 3-4-1-2. This meant that my 3 at the back played 1v1 against Blac's attackers, with 4 hard-working midfielders switching between offense and defense, and controlling the play in the middle of the pitch. Two strikers and an attacking midfielder were supposed to patiently unlock Blac's defence, creating overloads in the centre and waiting for the opening to appear. First game, 1-1 (due to a late equalizer from my striker in the 80th minute). Next game: 5-0 for Blac. Everything his players touched turned into gold. My players were completely disorganized by the sheer terror and chaos caused by Blac's outstanding wingers, his magnificent nr.10, and his natural goal-scorer in the central striker position. Those players were supported by an entire reserve army of supporting players. Opponents were running and going anywhere: run wide, drop deep, run into the penalty area, wait on the edge of the penalty box - and every time they found a free man who released the shot. Goal.

Yesh, yesh. Drastic times require drastic meassures. If I can't control the game, I must resort to the dark arts of football. I must destroy the game. Blac leaves me no other option but to return to the old Catenaccio, that emerged in Italy in the 1950's and 60's and brought terror and destruction to Europe. Football commentators across the continent dreaded: will this be the end of football?

Catenaccio

In 1965, Inter Milan played the European Cup final against the hot favorites of FC Benfica. By then, Inter Milan had already come to dominate the Italian Serie A with ''Catenaccio'', Italian for door-bolt. With a door-bolt, a bolt slides behind two metal pieces, putting a lock on the door. In football, this ''bolt'' was the Libero, an extra defender playing behind the defense to clear any ball that got through. But Catenaccio was more than just a schematic invention. It was also a mentality. It was a mentality dead-set on nullifying the play of the opponent. The entire team was involved in defending and frustrating the game. Against bigger opponents, there was not even the intention to win or to score goals anymore. Everything was about obstructing, frustrating, and nullifying the opponent. Everything was permitted: from psychological warfare and provocations, to bringing along Hooligans, diving, bribing the referee, giving elbows, and even doping.

The European final of 1965 went down as one of the most scandalous displays of ''anti-football'' in history. Benfica, a team full of gifted attackers, was blunted by Inter Milan's nihilism. For Inter, it was a matter of survival. If the opponent was better at playing football than they were, why would they play football? After a rather unexpected goal, Inter took the lead in what was an extremely one-sided game. They decided to play every ball back to the goalkeeper, frustrating the Benfica players and the fans in the stadium as well. The match was horrible to watch and bled to death. Inter won the final, having attacked only once or twice in the entire game. Fear spread in Europe: was this the future of football?

Neo-Catenaccio
If Blac's teams are simply better than mine, with their attacking intensity, he leaves me no other option. I must refuse to play. Its not possible in today's game to copy a system that worked in the 1960's. The original Catenaccio fell out of fashion in the 1970's, and was transformed by managers like Giovanni Trapattoni, Gigi Radice, and Enzo Bearzot, in what was called ''Zona Mista''. This was an updated version of Catenaccio that combined elements of the new ''Total Football'' that had conquered Europe. Zona Mista was, in a sense, an embryonic 3-5-2 in the making. With it, Juventus dominated Europe in the 1980s, and in 1982 Italy beat what many considered the best Brazilian team in history at the World Cup. The Italians eventually won the cup as well.

Show Content Zona Mista Italy:

Zona Mista fell out of fashion in the later 1980's and early 1990's as it became too predictable as literally every Italian team played it in almost the exact same way. Some teams switched to the newest hype, 4-4-2, others adopted the modern 3-5-2 that was invented by the Argentines in 1986. The lack of wingers being used in Italy and the frequent use of 3 central defenders gave rise to narrow formations that used an extra attacking midfielder, such as the 3-4-1-2 implemented by Capello with AS Roma and Dino Zoff as Italy's coach at Euro 2000, and the rise of the 4-3-1-2 used by Marcello Lippi's Juventus, Inter Milan, and AC Milan under Carlo Ancelotti.

With ever more teams packing the midfield with 4-3-1-2, using no wingers, the 3-5-2 was able to make its comeback. Many Italian teams have switched to 4-3-3 as well, also in response to both 4-3-1-2 and 3-5-2. The 4-3-1-2 remains popular this season among smaller Serie A clubs. It was also the preferred formation of Inter Milan under Jose Mourinho, that won the Championsleague in 2010. In the semi-finals, Inter faced Barcelona. As if it was a rehearsal of the 1965 events, legendary attack vs despised defence, Mourinho brought Barcelona to its knees in what many considered a scandalous affair. Mourinho was accused of pure anti-football, but he defended himself arguing that it would be insane to try and out-play Barcelona in their own game. Against Barcelona Inter officially used a 4-2-3-1 formation, but it was actually a formless thing that morphed into whatever was required to stop Barcelona from getting through, while leaving 1 or 2 attackers up front to wait for a break opportunity.

I have been working (and testing) methods to implement Catenaccio in a modern sense. Not that I changed the concept itself, I simply implemented its core features in a modern sense. And the lab results so far have proven that can withstand long periods of intense pressure and attacks coming from all sides. It is one big mess on the pitch if you look at it, because my own area is swarmed by defenders, there is an organization beneath the chaos. If Blac's teams win by spreading chaos and fear among my defenders, I will use chaos to strengthen my defensive organization! MUAHHAHAHA.

The days of Blac's endless goal-scoring are numbered! My experiments required a lot of returns to the design room, but I've managed to develop a defensive organization that has proven it can stay rock-solid for 90 minutes, and even snag a late goal in the 92nd minute. I can't wait to introduce my Neo-Catenaccio to Blac on the pitch.

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RE: The Official Game Status Update Thread - Flo - 10-12-2016

I will be anticipating the results